Tuesday, June 17, 2008

Spanky Panky

before your minds go off into the gutter (lol), i have a serious question....

do YOU believe in spanking? do you practice it? if you don't have kids yet, do you intend on spanking?

i ask this because i really would like to hear different opinions on it. i personally do not spank. i do not judge others who choose to spank, but i would like to actually HEAR their reasoning behind it. this all started because, as i've mentioned before, i have a cousin who has a daughter 6 days younger than mine. this cousin and i are like night and day, complete opposites in EVERY way. i keep my lil' PCD dressed in cute little prissy outfits, and i do her hair every day, she is clean and i am a stickler for teaching manners, even tho she can't pronounce everything perfectly yet. she understands me tho. cousin's baby on the other hand is the opposite. she is usually dirty, dirt you can see on her and under her finger and toenails. her hair is never combed and she's pretty wild. she's also extremely ill-mannered.

so we went out last friday. we were in the mall. each and every store we went into, her baby was running, screaming, throwing and doing whatever she wanted. when her mother told her to stop, she didn't listen. and in each and every store we were in, she got spanked. and she kept displaying the same behavior even after her spanking. by the 7th store, i had had enough...for a number of reasons. now usually, i wouldn't say a word about how someone disciplines their kid...but i was tired of the crazed circus that was trailing behind me around the mall. so as the baby kept running and standing on the kiddie chairs in this store, she got spanking # 8. of course everyone looked at the spectacle, which was mostly the mother screaming and yelping at the unphased baby. and get this, the kid gets spanked so much, she doesn't even cry!

anyhoo, i was tired at this point, so i shooshed my cousin and ushered the baby to the kiddie chairs and said the same thing i said to my kid..."have a seat ma'am and don't move. be obedient. thank you." and there she sat. 2 minutes later, she was up, and i said it again, this time i was far away from her...she went to sit. 2 more minutes and we just kept going back and forth...but my point was that 1) i did not need to get loud and create a scene, 2) patience and a loving yet firm tone got my point across just fine, 3) at this age (they're 18 mos), no kid just sits completely quietly, twidling their thumbs whistling dixie and 4) she responded much more positively to me than her mothers' rants, raves and volume.

testing their limits is what they do...especially at this age. so to spank them for every thing they do, even if the action is deliberate would be fruitless. i have found that my tone and repetitive reinforcement has worked just fine for lil PCD. she is at a point where i can give her a look and she'll know i mean business. i was upset with my cousin because at this age, i don't believe they understand the "point" of spanking. sure they understand the pain...and they can relate their action to the pain of the impending spanking and possible fear of getting one...but do they understand the actual POINT? i would say no. needless to say, my cousin over-spanks.



jameil1922 said...

i don't have any children but i think spankings are ok to a point mostly b/c it happened to me. overspanking for the cuz? yes. i agree 18 mos is probably too young for that. they don't get it. taking stuff the kid likes is probably most effective. my parents knew exactly how to punish me-- take my books. HISSY FITS!!! TEARS!! WAILING!! "IT'S NOT FAIR!!"


I spank....I really dont have any rationale except that I learned and was taught by my parents that spanking was a form of disclipline. I have a 8 year old son and a 5 year old daughter. I spank them when its neccessary. I dont spank them for ever single thing so they hardly ever get spank. I talk to them alot though, and I love them and I show affection towards them even more.
The last time I spanked my son was not actually a spanking but I popped him in the mouth because he got smart with me. The last time I spanked my daughter was because she told me a bald face lie. I know growing up that the stuff I got spanked for I essentially didnt do again. Spanking is not the same as abusing, some parents take it to far ( extension cords, belts, ect.) I use my hand. I grew up believing "Spare the rod, spoil the child"

Dreamy said...

well as you know i dont have any kids but my dad rarely ever spanked us. i can count on one hand how many whippings i got.

all he had to do was look at us.

would i spank??? only when needed. knowing my peronality all i would have to do is look and my kids and they would know that i wasnt playing,lol

that is what my dad used to do, give us that look and we was in line.

yeah your cousin does spank alot. the baby is probably immune to that,lol

why does your cousin not keep the baby up? no little girl should look like how you desbribed!!

PCD (Pretty Circle Drawer) said...

@ jameil and dreamy...i hate to sound like a pushover...but you said you would spank. could you explain the purpose behind it? i guess what i'm asking is...what does spanking convey (in your opinion)? WHY spank? its discipline, but so is "grounding," "time-out," (extra or "unliked") chores, and privilege loss. so why do you choose this form of discpline? i also received spankings (mum later said she regretted it)...but i do not spank. hope you guys don't think i'm being pushy...but i just want to understand why one chooses to spank. and when is spanking necessary? how do you determine...

@ dreamy...to answer your question about why my cousin keeps her daughter so shabby...well, long story short, she used to be morbidly obese. when she was, she had the worst esteem, therefore she never kept herself looking like anything. she was so big, she could barely clean properly without exasperating herself. she had gastric bypass...but she kept the same mentality b/c honestly, she had waaaaaaay more years ingrained as an obese slob than not. also, when she did lose the weight, another problem came...excess skin. so she is still dealing with her own body issues and not knowing how to address them properly...add to that some extreme immaturity and the stress of having a retarded husband and there's your answer.

Miss Mika said...

Okay, my feelings are two-fold.

I do spank my son. I don't beat him for bad behavior, I spank him and explain to him why I am doing what I am doing so that he doesn't make the same mistake again. I did not spank him when he was 18 months old. That is way too young and it doesn't teach the child anything at that age.

Spanking your child without talking to your child and letting them know that their actions were wrong does not solve anything, and I think that is where a lot of people get confused. My mother BEAT me growing up. She would hit me with anything she could get her hands on and a lot of the time she would hit me and I wouldn't really know why. I was on egg shells around her and was scared to death of her. While a little fear isn't a bad thing because in my eyes, in that fear lies respect, I don't want my son to be so scared of me, he can't talk to me or come to me when he needs me. I vowed that I would never beat my child, but I do not feel that spanking with explaining is a bad thing. And luckily, it isn't something I have to do very often. If my voice is one octave higher than normal, he is in tears!

Foia said...

PCD- Aww@ your lil pcd! I know she is just beautiful. Well I personally don't spank *yet* because I like you really would like to try and alternative form of disipline. Because I know that I got more than enough spankings growing up. But like poca said the stuff i got spanked for..i know i didn't do it again. or made sure that the next time that I didn't get caught..lol

But I can't stand a dirty child..and poor lil thing..I know one of the things that I looked most foward to when I found out I was having a girl was grooming her. My ma couldn't really do my hair, but I made sure I learned. And I know my lil F loves to get her hair done!

And most likely your cousin did learn that spanking is a form of disipline and doesn't know any better. And she should be ashamed of herself..I bet she is neat and clean..right? *or maybe not after reading your last comment*

The F$%K it List said...

Hey there. I do not spank! I was never spanked as a child (well maybe once when I punched holes in a $100 bill, and I deserved that). I don't think spankings do anything but teach a child that its ok to hit back.

CJ is two and I will say to him when he starts getting too silly or when he hits To stop it right now then I look him in the eye and he usually stops. He's around a few kids that are a year older than he is and I can tell their parents spank because they are hitters. I will also take away his balls and cars or make him sit in his room in the bed until I come back for him. The flip side is DH (dear hubby) was spanked, beat as he got older. So he does believe in spankings (not beating though he said he would never do that to his son and he better not or he will be living in the car), or Pow-Pow on the hand. When CJ decided he was going to run around unplugging TVs and radio that was the punishment, powpow on the hand. And then he called me to tell me.

I think its about knowing your child and what the will respond to. your cousin is however spanking too much and the wrong person could get the wrong idea especially out in public...so she should take that into account.

Product Junkie Diva said...

Spanking, whoa that is a loaded topic. I don't have kids and I was not spanked but I would want to explore alternative forms of discipline. I have to be honest here I have seen parents who do not spank and I have watched their children go to town on them hitting them and I am just thinking SPANK THAT KID. I am sure we have all see this clip by now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn18H3FKDV4 What would you do in such a situation? (just wondering)
Great post.
Product Junkie Diva

PCD (Pretty Circle Drawer) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PCD (Pretty Circle Drawer) said...

@ miss mika...thank you for your explanation. i understand what you're saying...but i must say, when i did get a spanking along with the talk before and after, i still would end up praying clair huxtable would be my mum cuz i didn't want to hear that-lol! i respect your position tho :-)

@ foia...ha! cousin is just as big a mess as the baby...anyhoo, i think what bothers me most is that she is going to end up making that baby be just like her with no reasoning or understandig behind anything...just being without purpose. it doesn't take much to break a child's spirit so i am very careful about what i say and do with mine...

@ F-it...you made a good point about kids being hitters (which can translate into different forms depending on the kid like aggression, bullying, depression, etc). at ANY age, most kids have an issue accepting the "do as i say and not as i do" gem. and if the kid picks up something negative, it certainly shouldn't be from me and my protest against it would be more effective if i weren't engaging in whatever it is.

@ PJD...welcome to the circle & good point. when you see an out-of-control child, the first thought usually is to break them off...but why? i guess its because some adults think it will get their attention and jolt them back into submission...but the ramifications can be great. also, for kids like the one in the clip...you can't wait until their 10, 11 and 12 to start disciplining them or addressing their behavioral issues. it was obvious that he was allowed to debate and talk back and "sass" his mother long before that show. but even after he slapped her, what would her slapping/spanking him have done to change his attitude and behavior?

Kitty said...

I spank but barely. Hardly ever actually. But my little man knows I will go there. Usually talking to him works when he does something wrong. He doesn't like for me to be disappointed with him so luckily my approval is usually motivation enough.

The Jaded NYer said...

I can count on my hands the times I've had to actually spank my daughters- ages 12 and 7- because usually a look will suffice in getting them to calm the hell down; I save the spanking for the most serious of offenses.

Why spank at all? Just how I was raised I guess. I figure if they know what's in store for them for misbehaving, they'll think twice.

But I make sure to steer clear of the angry, reactionary spanking that only makes one look like a bully who's too lazy to find another solution to a problem.

And I agree with your cousin being an over-spanker... her child is going to be hell on wheels if she keeps this up!

The Pew View said...

Lawd help me my mind was sho in the gutta. I had a flash back of my ex sugar son Tyron when I seens that spanky panky title. Anyhow well as you know I have 13 childrens and most of them are close in age so I had a never ending terrible two thang going for quite a while. I tried to raise my children in the ways of the Lawd and the bible says to spare the rod is to spoil the child. So yes I did tap they asses (forgive me Lawd) when I had to. Course with all them young childrens I couldn't be tapping that ass (forgive me Lawd) to much cause hell I woulda been tired as 1tramp after 12 tricks in a roll!

Baby I thanks you should talk to your cousin bout keeping that chile clean. No childrens should be walking round looking dirty. That's so sad. Imma pray for your cousin bout her excess whoopings and skin. Take care now.

Ruthie Ann

Product Junkie Diva said...

I am a firm believer that raising a child properly starts from infancy and not when the child is 12. By that time the kid has already demonstrated years of bad behavior that apparently had been left unchecked. What would you do with those kids who don't respond to time outs, having toys taken away etc.? When the alternative forms of discipline fail what then? Perhaps ( I don't know and I am not a parent so I am just guessing here) a well explained and well executed spanking can jolt the kid back to reality especially if spankings are not handed out in the household regularly. I have heard people talk about the ramifications of spankings and connections to slavery and whippings but I also know some solid, well educated adults who were raised by loving parents who spanked. As parents now, they also spank and their children seem just fine. Now on the surface they seem fine but maybe something is brewing deep inside, I don't know and again I was never spanked but this is just my thinking on the subject. Please others share your thoughts.....interesting topic.

Brown Girl Gumbo said...

I don't have children, but plan to have one soon. I have discussed this issue with my husband several times. We have agreed that we won't spank our children. I was never spanked and I turned out fine, so why not do the same with my own children?

I really think that spanking incites fear and who wants their kid to be afraid of them? Don't get me wrong, I want them to respect me and do the right things in life, but i don't want them to be afraid that I'm going to hurt them.

I haven't read others comments yet, but I can't wait to read other people's thoughts on this.

Great post PCD!!

PCD (Pretty Circle Drawer) said...

@ kitty...i understand. if you don'y mind my asking, how old is your son?

@ jaded nyer...i hear you as well. i guess i was wondering if the parents who spank did so because they were spanked. i really haven't encountered one who spanks that never received them. interesting!

@ pew view...now i know you are Bible reading ladies...so i ask...might the scripture you're referring to not be as literal as one may translate it to be? meaning, the "rod" could be any form of correction. literally, we don't go and widdle rods to spank kids with...so if we don't take it that literally, perhaps the rod could be some other form of correction...as long as you are correcting their misbehavior and not letting them run amuck. my personal research and studies have shown that some things in the Bible have gotten lost in translation...just my 2 cents on that

@ PJD...i haven't heard any spanking connections in reference to slavery, but thats an interesting perspective. anyhoo, i can't imagine that a child (that does not suffer from any behavioral disorders) who is completely unlearned to anything in this world would not respond to what they are taught from birth if it is consistent. thru my own trials with lil PCD, i have quickly learned that consistency is key. even the slightest deviations can send mixed signals setting off mutiny-lol! but in the case where there is a child like this...my answer would depend on their age and the offense. it could range from going to bed early (which was like death to me) to being sent to some type of program. i feel like i can communiate my dominance in many different ways besides physical, intimidation or fear. sure people turn out fine that have been spanked...i'm one of them. but i'd be lying if i said my thoughts at the time and growing up were influenced by spankings and they weren't all positive. my mum also put me in place in other ways and they worked just as well.

@ bgg...i completely agree. and you know what else...spankings can become bargaining points in children's minds. meaning, when they are older, they can rationalize the weight of the punishment. my brother did. he would actually commit to an offense and say that he'd "take the spanking" because it would be over and done with, unlike punishment that lingers. so the lesson was lost because he still did what he wanted and looked at the spanking as the lesser of the punishments. to make an impression, you DO have to hit kids where it hurts...but of course, my use of that term is completely figurative. for one kid-it could be basketball camp, for another-it could be new clothes, for another-it could be new books and fun outings. i must say, if my "punishment" could have been done and over with in 5-10 minutes without me having to miss out on anything truly fun or important to me, i'd opt for it too. shoot, i'd go get my own rod-LOL!

Smarty Jones said...

I don't have children, I do have a whole gang of nieces and nephews that I've only "spanked" or "popped" one time.
The key is getting them right the first time. I don't mean beating the child down, but they have to know you mean business.
I'm from the country, we didn't get "spankings" we got "beatins" or "killins" because that's how my mama rolled.
I turned out just fine. I only ever remember getting four of five of those and after that, I got the looks that you talked about.
Shoot, I'm 26, my mama can look at me now and I'll shut down whatever I'm doing.
Every child doesn't need to be spanked, then again, every child can't be talked to either.

Smarty Jones said...

And if she ain't keeping that baby clean, the baby ain't the one who needs her ass beat, it's the mama!

Queen of My Castle said...

I think a lot of parents spank because it's easier. It's easier to spank a child and get it over with rather than to have to watch the child suffer for a week or so through punishment. I was spanked as a child and I hated my parents for it.

You have really made me think about my parenting style with this post. With my younger son I usually speak very firmly with him when he's acting out and he will settle down, with my older one I have to sit and have those one on one conversations letting him know where his behavior will land him if he doesn't get it together, and I also threaten to call his father when I don't feel like dealing with it.

(¯`·._.·[***Fresh&Fab***]·._.·´¯) said...

i love this topic

Im just 17 no kids yet, but i intend on spanking, punishing, the whole shebang, because thats how ive been raised up and ive turned out somewhat fine. and plus im nigerian, but thats another thing

my reasons are, kids need to know when they do wrong by getting a spank, and need to understand that if they continue to do wrong, they would continue to get smacked..so their little brians would make them understand that..

and most kids i know that get smacked, are more respectful and obedient,as opposed to the ones who dont

and im not saying the ones who dont smack, the kids turn out bad

ive seen kids hit their parent in public or swear at them, i bet those parent dont smack their kids, and plus, smacking only really take place when the kids are young.

they grow to know the right things to do...

PCD (Pretty Circle Drawer) said...

@ smarty...you're a mess! and yes my cousin needs a good smack (or two!). i hear you on your experience. i don't think people who spank and/or got spanked turn out negatively. its just the fear factor that is a turn off for me

@ queen...i couldn't agree with your first paragraph more. its easier on the kid AND the parent. by choosing not to spank, it has helped me tremendously...in the areas of patience, communication, understanding and stopping to think of ways to handle different situations with different responses. i can tell that its worth it for us because of how my baby responds to me and acts in public. communicating with her was so important to me...and i think (especiallywith young babies) people underestimate the communication factor just because they can't speak proficiently. it amazes me how at 18 mos. my daughter can understand me AND respond accordingly wqithout me having to lay a hand on her, whether spanking, snatching, or whatever.

@ F&F...oh, you've got a whiiiiiiiiiiile to think about this stuff. to be 17 again....anyhoo, you have a point, but i will say, whilst my cousin does all of this spanking, her baby smacks her back and sometimes in the face. both sides can be double-edged swords.

PCD (Pretty Circle Drawer) said...

@ EVERYONE...i just wanted to thank you guys for sharing your personal stories and opinions because i know this was somewhat of a private topic. i have the best readers! no one here is disrespectful or attacking anyone for having a different view and EVERYONE is a valuable part of my pretty circle. thanks guys!!! *mwah*


PCD..you responded to everyone except me....=(

PCD (Pretty Circle Drawer) said...

@ poca..OMG! you know what, the comment that was deleted was from me and it had your response in it. when i revised the comment, i must have taken your part out...unintentionally of course.

now onto the commenting...i understand your explanation. but i wonder, if you had not been spanked, do you think you would? once i had to do the "ralphie" from a christmas story and hold soap in my mouth for speaking inappropriately. that lesson was great (and gross!) but also...if you read up to my response to 'the pew view,' i also commented about sparing the rod. (sidebar:::i love the term 'bald-face' can i use that?) if you don't mind my asking, how do you determine when a spanking is necessary?


No hard feelings sugah, I know you loves me..LOL

Yes you can use bald face. I actually like all the responses from al of the other bloggers.

I only got spanked when I did something that could not be dismissed. For instance I got spanked for calling my mom a whore to her face (spanked/slapped) I will never do that again. I got spanked for stealing out of the local store when I was 12, of course I knew better. I got caught smoking cigarettes when I was about 13, not only did I have to demonstrate but I got spanked for that cause I was "trying to be grown" I dont remember getting spanked for every thing I did but the things I got spanked for I didnt do anymore. I feel like If I didnt get spank I would view my parents as push overs and I could get away with testing them every time. I try to talk to the children as much as neccessary cause spanking does NOT always do the job. I have phased out of it alot and they get away with alot but my hubby thinks its neccessary and thats when I tell him that every bad action does not require a spanking so It can go both ways.

Mizrepresent said...

I have spanked, but for the most part i didn't. I always tried to talk to my children, reason with them, explain their wrongdoing, but if they continued, they usually got spanked, mosttimes not by me, but by the Mister. I was never spanked as a child, only in school when they used to use paddles to discipline you. I don't see it as a wrong way to discipline, but i do see it as something that has to be dished out at the right time. Of course, we also tried time out, punishment of all sorts, the last result was spanking, and to tell you the truth, it was the last result that worked in some cases.

Foia said...

Tag you're it.check the blog for futher information.

Kitty said...

@ PCD - My son is 7 years old but he's always been like that. I feel lucky because he has such a great disposition. :)

12kyle said...

sorry i'm late on this one...

hell yeah i spank em! the lil fella hasn't officially been spanked yet but it's coming! lol

i'd rather discipline my sons now at an early age and hopefully i won't have any problems with them later.

good post

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

me no time out
kids aint sports

The Second Sixty-Eight said...

I have found that spanking is effective in getting attention.

My question is what do you do when the time out corner and a lifetime of punishment doesn't seem to do the job? Where do you go then?

Really discipline is an escalating series of things that are used to curtail "bad" behavior. Sometimes a word will do. Sometimes just a look. You may have to go to the time out. The week of denial. Extra chores. It all depends on the child really.

I made sure to define for them the things that would happen should they choose to act in certain ways. Usually physical punishment happens when they chose to ignore the more peaceful solutions for too long or when the behavior would end up in incarceration or them coming to serious harm in the adult world.